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Dear THREDDS Support-I don't have a solution offhand in terms of bundle changes. There is a mechanism in the IDV for prompting the user when there are multiple possibilities for a change in names which was used in the 4.2->4.3 transition. It seems that was not tried for this upgrade.
What I object to most is the lack of communication until the last minute about a change like this. I reported this problem the first day the announcement was made a few weeks ago and today (the day of the server change) is the first day I got something back from THREDDS support with a solution or even an acknowledgement of the problem (after several followup inquiries). So, perhaps there needs to be some discussion in the UPC on addressing user inquires.
Once the bundle is changed, I can't switch back to the fallback server. Also, this involves installing and uninstalling plugins which might not work for a class setting.
Don On 5/18/15 1:31 PM, Unidata THREDDS Support wrote:
Hi Don, Apologies for the troubles you are having. Perhaps you have some ideas on how to make bundles more resilient to changes. Based on the bundle you provided, a simple name change seemed to do the trick. Maybe it's time to rethink the current bundle format and see how these kinds of issues could be addressed by creating a new bundle version. Also remember that data access through a backup server running the previous version will continue to exists for a few weeks after today using threddsbackup.ucar.edu (there is also an IDV plugin for this). This should help facilitate any changes that need to be made in terms of getting the details of previous bundle behavior (color scales, ranges, etc.) Rather than taking this thread in a totally different direction (re: new bundle format), perhaps this item can be added to the next IDV Steering Committee meeting. Thank you, THREDDS SupportDear THREDDS Support- Not all IDV users are on an academic schedule. I use this bundle continually through the year (daily during times of precip) and it is served up by my RAMADDA server to all my users. In this case, I do have to remake the display (unless I edit the bundle) which means I have to redo the formula and set any colortables, ranges, etc that I had in the original bundle (if I can remember what they were). It's not a trivial issue as you make it seem. Don Hi All, Don - thank you for your initial report of the issue, and apologies for the delay. Given that the academic summer semesters typically start at the beginning of June, there should be enough time to address these changes. I'm pretty sure the bundle will load what it can, and the new field can be added quite easily (which I've done with your RR 20km bundle Don - would you like me to send a copy?). I do not believe there is any need to remake a bundle from scratch in this case. In terms of this change specifically, if anyone has issues with their bundles not being able to be salvaged due to the mixed interval variable name changes, please send a copy of your bundle to support@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and we will get it fixed. If you're feeling adventurous, you can use the list of name changes provided below to replace the old names in the .xidv bundle file yourself, since xidv bundles are just text files, which is exactly what we will be doing here. Generally it's a bad idea to hand edit bundle files as they tend to be very brittle and not at all forgiving when it comes to hand editing, but variable name changes are pretty straight forward. You would basically need to change occurrences of the string "_Mixed_Intervals" with "_1_Hour" or "_3_Hour", depending on the correct name. Again, no need that I can see to remake a bundle. Cheers, THREDDS SupportThank you for finally addressing this issue that was reported several weeks ago. I wish there could have been more notification than on the day of the server switch so I could have time to fix things. One point of clarification. Loading a bundle in IDV 5.1u2 will not prompt you for a new variable name. It just gives an error that the variable can't be found and hence no display is created. This means that anyone using bundles that have variables with new names will have to remake their bundles. Sigh..... DonGreetings IDV users, As thredds.ucar.edu is switched to the 4.6 version of the THREDDS Data Server (TDS), you may notice the same names of variables have changed. Specifically, you will likely encounter the case where Mixed Interval variable have been renamed to indicate that they are no longer mixed, but rather fixed interval variables. As an example, if we consider the Rapid Refresh Model, the following old variable name: Convective_precipitation_surface_Mixed_intervals_Accumulation has been changed to: Convective_precipitation_surface_1_Hour_Accumulation Why did this happen? The THREDDS group has looked over all cases of Mixed Interval Variables in the data we serve out and we noticed that, in some cases, mixed intervals were not needed, and we we able to reduce these to single interval variables. Again, considering the Convective Precip variable from the Rapid Refresh, the old variable: Convective_precipitation_surface_Mixed_intervals_Accumulation actually contained two types of intervals over which the accumulation occurred (thus the "mixed interval" in the name). One interval was the 1 hour interval: accumulation over forecast hours 0-1, 1-2, 2-3, 3-4., etc. The second interval contained a total run accumulation: accumulation over forecast hours 0-1, 0-2, 0-3, 0-4, etc. When served as a mixed interval, the data would look something like: accumulation over forecast hours 0-1, 0-1, 1-2, 0-2, 2-3, 0-3... The end result is that, when displayed in the IDV, the precip field would appear to "jump" around in magnitude when animated. However, given the simplicity of how these intervals were actually "mixed", we were able to, on the server side, remove the total accumulation over the run portion of the grids while only serving the 1 hour accumulation grids. Since the total run accumulation can be computed from the 1 hour interval accumulations, this seems like the reasonable thing to do. Depending on the model, the mixed interval grid may be rename as a 1_hour_Accumulation, or a 3_hour_Accumulation (other interval lengths will be possible in the future, I'm sure). That means replacing all of the Mixed Interval Variable names with a 1 hour Accumulation variable name is not a safe option. After much discussion with the IDV group over the past year+, we've agreed that in these cases (where data fundamentally change meaning), it's best to allow users of the IDV to see that these changes have occurred. We are not big fans of silently changing the meaning of the variables. Further, we aren't sure how aware users are of the complexity of these mixed interval data, so this will bring these issues to the forefront. For users of IDV bundles, this means you will need to re-save your bundle after being prompted to select a new variable. We hope you find these reduced mixed interval variables are more useful, and please know that we are working on a solution for the more complex types of mixed intervals (for example, every mixed interval in the GFS output). Because these more complex mixed interval variables still show up as Mixed Interval variables (and are very nuanced), be very cautious when using them as they are likely NOT what you think or hope they might be. In the coming weeks we will be doing a series of blog posts explaining in detail how these mixed interval grids come about, and why there are cases where the reduction of a mixed interval variable is not as simple as the case above. Here is a list of the datasets, and associated variables, where these changes occur: Rapid Refresh collections (for old name, replace 1_Hour with Mixed_intervals): Convective_precipitation_surface_1_Hour_Accumulation Large-scale_precipitation_non-convective_surface_1_Hour_Accumulation NAM 12km NOAAPORT (for old name, replace 3_Hour with Mixed_intervals): Convective_precipitation_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation Percent_of_Frozen_Precipitation_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation Probability_of_0p01_inch_of_precipitation_POP_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation Probability_of_Freezing_Precipitation_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation Thunderstorm_probability_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation Total_precipitation_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation NAM 12km CONDUIT (for old name, replace 3_Hour with Mixed_intervals): Baseflow-Groundwater_Runoff_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation Convective_precipitation_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation Deep_Convective_Heating_Rate_entire_atmosphere_single_layer_3_Hour_Average Downward_Short-Wave_Radiation_Flux_surface_3_Hour_Average Large_Scale_Condensate_Heating_Rate_entire_atmosphere_single_layer_3_Hour_Average Snow_melt_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation Storm_Surface_Runoff_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation Total_precipitation_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation Water_equivalent_of_accumulated_snow_depth_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation NAM 20km NOAAPORT (for old name, replace 3_Hour with Mixed_intervals): Convective_precipitation_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation Percent_of_frozen_precipitation_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation Probability_of_freezing_precipitation_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation Probability_of_precipitation_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation Snow_depth_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation Thunderstorm_probability_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation Total_precipitation_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation NAM 40km CONDUIT (for old name, replace 3_Hour with Mixed_intervals): Baseflow-Groundwater_Runoff_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation Convective_precipitation_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation Downward_Long-Wave_Radp_Flux_surface_3_Hour_Average Downward_Short-Wave_Radiation_Flux_surface_3_Hour_Average Evaporation_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation Ground_Heat_Flux_surface_3_Hour_Average Large-scale_precipitation_non-convective_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation Latent_heat_net_flux_surface_3_Hour_Average Potential_Evaporation_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation Sensible_heat_net_flux_surface_3_Hour_Average Snow_Phase_Change_Heat_Flux_surface_3_Hour_Average Snow_melt_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation Storm_Surface_Runoff_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation Total_cloud_cover_entire_atmosphere_single_layer_3_Hour_Average Total_precipitation_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation Upward_Long-Wave_Radp_Flux_atmosphere_top_3_Hour_Average Upward_Long-Wave_Radp_Flux_surface_3_Hour_Average Upward_Short-Wave_Radiation_Flux_atmosphere_top_3_Hour_Average Upward_Short-Wave_Radiation_Flux_surface_3_Hour_Average Water_equivalent_of_accumulated_snow_depth_surface_3_Hour_Accumulation Thank you, The THREDDS Development TeamTicket Details =================== Ticket ID: GCY-293173 Department: Support THREDDS Priority: Low Status: Open _______________________________________________ idvusers mailing list idvusers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx For list information, to unsubscribe, visit: http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/mailing_lists/
-- Don Murray NOAA/ESRL/PSD and CU-CIRES 303-497-3596 http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/people/don.murray/
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