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Bob, Nathan, Actually, the "Conventions" attribute can handle multiple conventions in the netCDF specification. See: http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/conventions.html It says: It is possible for a netCDF file to adhere to more than one set of conventions, even when there is no inheritance relationship among the conventions. In this case, the value of the `Conventions' attribute may be a single text string containing a list of the convention names separated by blank space (recommended) or commas (if a convention name contains blanks), for example :Conventions = "XXX YYY" ; While the CF conventions do say to use "CF-1.4" the text of the URL you sent doesn't say you CAN'T include other conventions. I think it would not be in the spirit of CF to tell someone not to include other conventions if they are appropriate. Ken On Jan 21, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Nathan Potter wrote: > > > Bob, > > Thanks for the clarification. > > > Nathan > > > > On Jan 21, 2010, at 12:05 PM, Bob Simons wrote: > >> On 1/21/2010 11:17 AM, Nathan Potter wrote: >>> >>> Bob, >>> >>> Roy indicated (via an offline conversation) that the "Conventions" >>> metadata attribute is baked into the existing netCDF files at the ERD >>> site, and that it is unlikely that a reprocessing of the data would be >>> undertaken to correct the existing files. If that's the case then >>> wouldn't this mean that it would be necessary to support both >>> interpretations of the "Conventions" attribute? Or was I >>> misunderstanding the extent of the issue w.r.t. changing the existing >>> ERD holdings? >> >> It is true that "Conventions" (and not "Metadata_Conventions") is used in a >> large number of files at ERD and that it is unlikely (but possible) that >> those existing files will be changed. But we are working to change our >> program that generates new .nc files so that new files will have both >> Conventions: CF-1.4 >> Metadata_Conventions: COARDS, CF-1.4, Unidata Dataset Discovery v1.0 >> >> Since we have configured THREDDS to get metadata from the penultimate file, >> the new metadata will appear in almost all of our THREDDS datasets sooner >> (many of our datasets are near-real-time) or later. We may have to change a >> few datasets by hand. But the plan is to convert to using both >> "Conventions" and "Metadata_Conventions" for the reasons I stated earlier >> this morning. >> >>> >>> >>> >>> Nathan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jan 21, 2010, at 10:57 AM, Bob Simons wrote: >>> >>>> Please leave "Metadata_Conventions" as is. >>>> >>>> The problem is that the widely used CF convention specifies that the >>>> value of "Conventions" should be just "CF-1.4" and that the value is >>>> sometimes interpreted as a directory name. So it can't be a list of >>>> conventions. See >>>> http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-conventions/1.4/cf-conventions.html#identification-of-conventions >>>> >>>> >>>> So it is useful to have a separate "Metadata_Conventions" attribute >>>> which can be a comma-separated list of convention names, e.g., >>>> "COARDS, CF-1.4, Unidata Dataset Discovery v1.0". See >>>> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf-java/formats/DataDiscoveryAttConvention.html >>>> . >>>> >>>> The misuse of "Conventions" at the ERD site was my mistake. I am >>>> working to change it to (for most datasets) >>>> Conventions : CF-1.4 >>>> Metadata_Conventions: COARDS, CF-1.4, Unidata Dataset Discovery v1.0 >>>> >>>> That's my $0.02. >>>> >>>> On 1/21/2010 10:36 AM, Nathan Potter wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Greetings, >>>>> >>>>> Any idea how many people are using the UNIDATA's NetCDF Attribute >>>>> Convention for Dataset Discovery?? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If Roy's site is the primary (only?) example of it in actual use, and we >>>>> accept Benno's point that the name attribute *Metadata_Conventions* is >>>>> redundant, should we not consider amending the draft to change the >>>>> attribute name from *Metadata_Conventions* to *Conventions*? >>>>> >>>>> (Assuming that it hasn't been push passed the draft spec: Dataset >>>>> Discovery NetCDF Attribute Convention >>>>> <http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf-java/formats/DataDiscoveryAttConvention.html>) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If we don't change it might we amend the draft to explicitly make the >>>>> attributes *Metadata_Conventions* and *Conventions* synonymous? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Nathan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Jan 14, 2010, at 9:44 AM, Roy Mendelssohn wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> There are metadata in our files that follows all of those conventions. >>>>>> In trying to relay that act, we felt this was the best way to relay >>>>>> that fact. So you will find the metadata required for CF, the >>>>>> Coastwatch conventions, and the Unidata Data Discovery Conventions. >>>>>> >>>>>> -Roy >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 14, 2010, at 9:40 AM, Benno Blumenthal wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> OK, again trying desperately to understand your cryptic e-mails, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://thredds1.pfeg.noaa.gov/thredds/dodsC/satellite/SW/chla/1day.das >>>>>>> >>>>>>> has many of those attributes. You did, however, say >>>>>>> >>>>>>> String Conventions "COARDS, CF-1.0, Unidata Dataset Discovery v1.0, >>>>>>> CWHDF"; >>>>>>> >>>>>>> whereas the document suggested looking for >>>>>>> >>>>>>> String Metadata_Conventions = "Unidata Dataset Discovery v1.0"; >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What you are doing, of course, makes sense. Did the original document >>>>>>> get corrected over time? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Benno >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:31 PM, Roy Mendelssohn >>>>>>> <Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx <mailto:Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No we use it extensively. Look at any of he satellite data at our >>>>>>>> TDS (http://oceanwatch.pfeg.noaa.gov/thredds/catalog.html). It is >>>>>>>> just since this is not automatically produced by the TDS that we >>>>>>>> have a program of our own that generates our catalogs. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -Roy >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2010, at 9:18 AM, Benno Blumenthal wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So, to be really concrete, despite this convention of using netcdf >>>>>>>>> attributes to insert metadata which you just pointed us to, you >>>>>>>>> don't use it at all, you just scan your netcdf files yourself and >>>>>>>>> generate the TDS XML directly. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Benno >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Roy Mendelssohn >>>>>>>>> <Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx <mailto:Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> We did this "by hand" (well actually we have a program that does >>>>>>>>> it) in generating our catalogs not certain ow others do it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -Roy >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2010, at 8:56 AM, Nathan Potter wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Roy, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Briefly scanning that page it looks like this gist of it is that >>>>>>>>>> one could use NcML to add/complete a "Unidata Dataset Discovery >>>>>>>>>> v1.0" set of metadata to a data set. THis could then be harvested >>>>>>>>>> by the TDS, or by other software that understood the "Unidata >>>>>>>>>> Dataset Discovery v1.0" convention. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Is that the general idea? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> N >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2010, at 8:41 AM, Roy Mendelssohn wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Nathan: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Look at: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf-java/formats/DataDiscoveryAttConvention.html >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -Roy >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 14, 2010, at 8:33 AM, Nathan Potter wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Greetings, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have some questions about the origin of the >>>>>>>>>>>> thredds:geospaptialCoverage element that is commonly found in >>>>>>>>>>>> THREDDS catalogs. It is my understanding that: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> - The TDS can generate this metadata element by interrogating >>>>>>>>>>>> certain types of source data files. >>>>>>>>>>>> - People that write their own THREDDS catalog files to be served >>>>>>>>>>>> by the TDS can add the thredds:geospaptialCoverage metadata >>>>>>>>>>>> directly to their catalogs (using whatever process they wish). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Is the thredds:geospaptialCoverage also something that can be >>>>>>>>>>>> added through normal channels in NcML augmented data sets? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> = = = >>>>>>>>>>>> Nathan Potter ndp at opendap.org >>>>>>>>>>>> OPeNDAP, Inc. +1.541.231.3317 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> thredds mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> thredds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:thredds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>>>>>>> For list information or to unsubscribe, visit: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/mailing_lists/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ********************** >>>>>>>>>>> "The contents of this message do not reflect any position of the >>>>>>>>>>> U.S. Government or NOAA." >>>>>>>>>>> ********************** >>>>>>>>>>> Roy Mendelssohn >>>>>>>>>>> Supervisory Operations Research Analyst >>>>>>>>>>> NOAA/NMFS >>>>>>>>>>> Environmental Research Division >>>>>>>>>>> Southwest Fisheries Science Center >>>>>>>>>>> 1352 Lighthouse Avenue >>>>>>>>>>> Pacific Grove, CA 93950-2097 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> e-mail: Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx> (Note new e-mail address) >>>>>>>>>>> voice: (831)-648-9029 >>>>>>>>>>> fax: (831)-648-8440 >>>>>>>>>>> www: http://www.pfeg.noaa.gov/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill." >>>>>>>>>>> "From those who have been given much, much will be expected" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> = = = >>>>>>>>>> Nathan Potter ndp at opendap.org >>>>>>>>>> OPeNDAP, Inc. +1.541.231.3317 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ********************** >>>>>>>>> "The contents of this message do not reflect any position of the >>>>>>>>> U.S. Government or NOAA." >>>>>>>>> ********************** >>>>>>>>> Roy Mendelssohn >>>>>>>>> Supervisory Operations Research Analyst >>>>>>>>> NOAA/NMFS >>>>>>>>> Environmental Research Division >>>>>>>>> Southwest Fisheries Science Center >>>>>>>>> 1352 Lighthouse Avenue >>>>>>>>> Pacific Grove, CA 93950-2097 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> e-mail: Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx <mailto:Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx> >>>>>>>>> (Note new e-mail address) >>>>>>>>> voice: (831)-648-9029 >>>>>>>>> fax: (831)-648-8440 >>>>>>>>> www: http://www.pfeg.noaa.gov/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill." >>>>>>>>> "From those who have been given much, much will be expected" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Dr. M. Benno Blumenthal benno@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>>>>> <mailto:benno@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>>>> International Research Institute for climate and society >>>>>>>>> The Earth Institute at Columbia University >>>>>>>>> Lamont Campus, Palisades NY 10964-8000 (845) 680-4450 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ********************** >>>>>>>> "The contents of this message do not reflect any position of the >>>>>>>> U.S. Government or NOAA." >>>>>>>> ********************** >>>>>>>> Roy Mendelssohn >>>>>>>> Supervisory Operations Research Analyst >>>>>>>> NOAA/NMFS >>>>>>>> Environmental Research Division >>>>>>>> Southwest Fisheries Science Center >>>>>>>> 1352 Lighthouse Avenue >>>>>>>> Pacific Grove, CA 93950-2097 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> e-mail: Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx <mailto:Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx> >>>>>>>> (Note new e-mail address) >>>>>>>> voice: (831)-648-9029 >>>>>>>> fax: (831)-648-8440 >>>>>>>> www: http://www.pfeg.noaa.gov/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill." >>>>>>>> "From those who have been given much, much will be expected" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Dr. M. Benno Blumenthal benno@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>>> <mailto:benno@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>> International Research Institute for climate and society >>>>>>> The Earth Institute at Columbia University >>>>>>> Lamont Campus, Palisades NY 10964-8000 (845) 680-4450 >>>>>> >>>>>> ********************** >>>>>> "The contents of this message do not reflect any position of the U.S. >>>>>> Government or NOAA." >>>>>> ********************** >>>>>> Roy Mendelssohn >>>>>> Supervisory Operations Research Analyst >>>>>> NOAA/NMFS >>>>>> Environmental Research Division >>>>>> Southwest Fisheries Science Center >>>>>> 1352 Lighthouse Avenue >>>>>> Pacific Grove, CA 93950-2097 >>>>>> >>>>>> e-mail: Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx <mailto:Roy.Mendelssohn@xxxxxxxx> >>>>>> (Note new e-mail address) >>>>>> voice: (831)-648-9029 >>>>>> fax: (831)-648-8440 >>>>>> www: http://www.pfeg.noaa.gov/ >>>>>> >>>>>> "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill." >>>>>> "From those who have been given much, much will be expected" >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> = = = >>>>> Nathan Potter ndp at opendap.org >>>>> OPeNDAP, Inc. +1.541.231.3317 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> thredds mailing list >>>>> thredds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>> For list information or to unsubscribe, visit: >>>>> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/mailing_lists/ >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Bob Simons >>>> IT Specialist >>>> Environmental Research Division >>>> NOAA Southwest Fisheries Science Center >>>> 1352 Lighthouse Ave >>>> Pacific Grove, CA 93950-2079 >>>> Phone: (831)658-3205 >>>> Fax: (831)648-8440 >>>> Email: bob.simons@xxxxxxxx >>>> >>>> The contents of this message are mine personally and >>>> do not necessarily reflect any position of the >>>> Government or the National Oceanic and Atmospheric >>>> Administration. >>>> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> thredds mailing list >>>> thredds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> For list information or to unsubscribe, visit: >>>> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/mailing_lists/ >>> >>> = = = >>> Nathan Potter ndp at opendap.org >>> OPeNDAP, Inc. +1.541.231.3317 >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Sincerely, >> >> Bob Simons >> IT Specialist >> Environmental Research Division >> NOAA Southwest Fisheries Science Center >> 1352 Lighthouse Ave >> Pacific Grove, CA 93950-2079 >> Phone: (831)658-3205 >> Fax: (831)648-8440 >> Email: bob.simons@xxxxxxxx >> >> The contents of this message are mine personally and >> do not necessarily reflect any position of the >> Government or the National Oceanic and Atmospheric >> Administration. >> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< >> >> _______________________________________________ >> thredds mailing list >> thredds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> For list information or to unsubscribe, visit: >> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/mailing_lists/ > > = = = > Nathan Potter ndp at opendap.org > OPeNDAP, Inc. +1.541.231.3317 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > thredds mailing list > thredds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > For list information or to unsubscribe, visit: > http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/mailing_lists/ [NOTE: The opinions expressed in this email are those of the author alone and do not necessarily reflect official NOAA, Department of Commerce, or US government policy.] Kenneth S. Casey, Ph.D. Technical Director NOAA National Oceanographic Data Center 1315 East-West Highway Silver Spring MD 20910 301-713-3272 ext 133 http://www.nodc.noaa.gov/
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